Looking for app to control sequence in which photos are displayed

Myer · Jul 6, 2016

By "bad" I meant answers that didn't end with a solution.

By the way. While I have been retired for several years and am admittedly new to iOS, I spent my entire career working in system development.

I was a Fortran and COBOL programmer probably way before you were born.

The last job I held before retirement was as a database developer using SQL Server.

While the tools change, the process doesn't.

Just about every display program on a PC or MAC computer has an option to decide what the sort order should be when displayed.

I can't believe these things would even have to be a request rather than being part of the original design specs.

Why would anybody prefer a photo album in random order?

Can you just see a bride showing off her wedding photos and having the end of the reception showing before the ceremony?

I can't possibly be the first person who wants this.

Skull One · Jul 6, 2016

Myer said:
By "bad" I meant answers that didn't end with a solution.

If there is "no solution" that isn't a bad answer. You should know that by now.

Myer said:
By the way. While I have been retired for several years and am admittedly new to iOS, I spent my entire career working in system development.

I was a Fortran and COBOL programmer probably way before you were born.

Unless you are over the age of at least 72 (probably closer to 75), I was around

And I was already coding in 1979 on a PDP 11 using Fortran to help my father with his job. Went professional in 1982 when I sold my first game for the TI-99/4A written in Extended Basic. Over the years I have professionally coded in over two dozen languages. several CPU architectures (including coding in assembly for the 6502/10, 68K, 8086/8, 80x386, Z80 and the Cyber 170/865 which used a 60 bit word) and worked with over a dozen OSes. So I know a little about coding.

Myer said:
The last job I held before retirement was as a database developer using SQL Server.

While the tools change, the process doesn't.

Just about every display program on a PC or MAC computer has an option to decide what the sort order should be when displayed.

Ah, this is where the failure to understand starts. While iOS is a Unix based OS, it doesn't have a user interface like a PC does. In fact the majority of the working of the OS are completely hiding from the user. And it is done on purpose. It helps avoid confusing the users overall experience with the product. Steve Jobs wasn't an idiot when he said "Don't ask the customer what they want. You build it right and show them what they want."

BTW, If you want an example of an OS having a serious issue because they "listen" to their users, go use Android phones and try to develop for them. You will learn a whole new level of hell if you think iOS is bad.

Myer said:
I can't believe these things would even have to be a request rather than being part of the original design specs.

Why would anybody prefer a photo album in random order?

Can you just see a bride showing off her wedding photos and having the end of the reception showing before the ceremony?

I can't possibly be the first person who wants this.

The photo album is not in random order. In fact it is in a very specific order that can be verified. And I laid out the order so that you may verify it at your leisure. I'm sorry you disagree with Apples design choices for their product, but it was done to make the user experience very consistent and intuitive. Which it is.

Myer · Jul 7, 2016

Well, I guess we're both old timers. I'm 72.

This is what I found. In both cases I'm using the Photos app to display the photos.

When I use iTunes to create and populate the albums the display sequence is by photo creation date. This is usually fine unless I would like the photos in some other sequence (such as grouping together similar photos) which isn't very often.

What I don't like about using iTunes is having to keep connecting and disconnecting the cable which eventually will break (probably) and could break leaving the male part inside the iPhone. Also, the program is very quick to try and Synch the iPhone with the PC. I don't like that. Automatic is good because it's automatic. Automatic is bad because it's automatic.

So I tried a couple of apps that are in the App Store and found that Simple Transfer works fine. I can easily create albums and upload selected photos to any of these albums. Then when I opened the Photos app and displayed the same album I found the display sequence has changed. Even though it changed it always remained the same.

Since I've deleted the second version I don't remember which photos came near the start except for the first one. I just looked it up and it's possible that the album was sequence by modify date rather than create date. The first photo appears to have the oldest modify date.

If I have it in me I'll delete that album and reload it using Simple Transfer and check the first 20 photos or so to see whether it is truly sequenced my modify date. If that's the case there's a simple though time consuming solution.

Myer · Jul 7, 2016

I did a test and got some interesting results.

It appears it's the upload program that determines the display sequence and not the Photos app.

Yesterday, I deleted all of my photo albums and recreated them using iTunes.

I'm using one particular album that has 188 photos. It was sequenced by create date (when the photo was taken).

It's interesting to note that albums created by iTunes do not place photos in Camera Roll, and cannot be deleted (nor the album or individual photos) from the iPhone. It has to be done thru iTunes' syncing process.

I just created and populated an album with the same 188 photos using Simple Transfer.

This new album is sequenced by modify date and not by create date. There may be positives and negatives to either choice but at least I know what it is and can adjust to it.

I should note that over the past 10 days or so I sent several emails to Rambax, the developer of Simple Transfer Pro and received no responses.

On Monday, which was a holiday I sent them an email and indicated that if I didn't receive a response by Wednesday (yesterday) I would begin to inform others of their lack of customer support (I purchased the Pro version).

You are informed.

Skull One · Jul 7, 2016

Lets address some of your discoveries and explain why you got the results that you did.

As you discovered, using iTunes to upload a photo album is based on the meta data in the photo (if it exists). When the photo is transferred to the phone, the file time/date on disk is set to the meta data of the photo. If the photo has no meta data, then the files time/date on the PC is used to set the time/date on the phone.

Simple Transfer (the name is actually quite correct) does not use the meta data as you discovered but the time/date of the file on disk and simply transfers it over to the phone's disk.

Now that both apps behavior is known, then you can now see why Photos works the way it does. When you look at a Album for the first time, if it hasn't already done so in background, Photos creates a SQLite table (for this album) in the master Photos database of all the files names and their time/date stamps on disk. It then creates thumbnails. Finally once the table is populated it can display the album. Photos from then on, unless you add a new photo, will only use the table in the database to manage the display of the album.

Now as for you concern for a cable breaking. They only break due to abuse, not every day use. I have my original 30 pin cable from 2011 sitting on my desk next to me and I use it nearly every day to backup my wife's iPad 2 and sync my iPhone 4 (used like an iPod now). The cable looks a little dirty but otherwise is in very good shape. Take care of the cable and the cable will take care of you. And the odds of the cable breaking off in the phone is almost close to zero. The 30 pin can't do it. The lightning cable would require you to do it on purpose.

And last but not least, you don't have to connect your iPhone to a PC if you are using iTunes and WiFi Sync to back it up. Apps, Photos, Music, Books and a few other items can be synced over the air, when using iTunes, by having the phone and the PC on the same WiFi network. So if you change a photo album on the PC, simply click on the phone in the menu bar area of iTunes and then when the phone is displayed, at the bottom you will see the button in the bottom right has changed. Press it to sync the files you have updated. No more need of a cable. This has been a feature of iOS for 3 years now.

Myer · Jul 7, 2016

Simple Transfer does use data in the file. The modify date is there in addition to the create date.

I did notice something on an iTunes screen that referred to a WiFi connection.

Now that you reminded me I'll look into it over the next few days. Thanks.

I'm not overly excited about using the Sync process. Especially since the photos on my wife's iPhone are stored on my PC as well. I don't want to get them confused.