Apple is aware of battery life problem on 4s and iphone 4

gixxersixxer · Nov 14, 2011

Skull One said:
Your phone is "probably" fine. Odds are data carried over from your 4 is causing an issue. Some people have had great success with simply "starting over". Wipe the phone, sync contacts/music/photos and manually bring your apps back over. While this is a ROYAL pain because you lose all your game save data, some people swear by it.

Personally, I am waiting for iOS 5.0.2 and just living with the current issue.

Do you mind walking me through what procedure this is... Wipe as in, go to setting and reset all settings? Or erase all content and settings...

What data should I not sync via itunes after doing so... I guess I want to make sure I eliminate certain data transfering over, to make sure I start off as clean as possible to try and get the same results others are getting by starting over...

Then go to app store and readd all the apps i had? How about my note pad, calendar and such. Do i restore from a back up or as a new device? Im not very familiar with this process, could you point me in the right direction of what exactly I should try, maybe a thread describing the whole process step by step. Thanks

p3unit32 · Nov 14, 2011

Skull One said:
Your phone is "probably" fine. Odds are data carried over from your 4 is causing an issue. Some people have had great success with simply "starting over". Wipe the phone, sync contacts/music/photos and manually bring your apps back over. While this is a ROYAL pain because you lose all your game save data, some people swear by it.

Personally, I am waiting for iOS 5.0.2 and just living with the current issue.

Tell me about it! Yesterday I took my phone to apple and they wiped a different way, but the issue didn't change. As a matter of fact you mention the battery can drain quicker than it charges and I experienced that a few times. But I definitely agree with your finding, some of the apple reps thought I was making up reasons to swoop out my phone. And they are clueless as well, I fact we know more about this issue than they do. The apple rep today told me I didn't even have to proper condition my battery.

Rocko · Nov 14, 2011

p3unit32 said:
old me I didn't even have to proper condition my battery.

You really don't. The constant 're-calibrating' is not needed. Li-Ion batteries don't need to be drained down to nothing-this comes from the Ni-Cad and Ni-MH battery days. You can't drain the Li-Ion battery all the way anyway as there are circuits in place to prevent a total drain becuase this would ruin the battery.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid frequent full discharges and charge more often between uses. If full discharges cannot be avoided, try utilizing a larger battery. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery.[/FONT]

DaveM · Nov 14, 2011

Rocko said:
You really don't. The constant 're-calibrating' is not needed. Li-Ion batteries don't need to be drained down to nothing-this comes from the Ni-Cad and Ni-MH battery days. You can't drain the Li-Ion battery all the way anyway as there are circuits in place to prevent a total drain becuase this would ruin the battery.

The smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid frequent full discharges and charge more often between uses. If full discharges cannot be avoided, try utilizing a larger battery. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery.

That's not what Apple says:

[h=3]Use iPhone Regularly[/h]For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it’s important to keep the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least one charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely running it down).

Apple - Batteries - iPhone

Rocko · Nov 14, 2011

DaveM said:
That's not what Apple says:

Apple - Batteries - iPhone

Well that goes against the principals of Li-Ion batteries. 1- you can not fully drain li-ion batteries. There is a circuit present to prevent this. If there was not a circuit you would destroy the battery.

[h=2]Over-discharging Lithium-ion[/h] Li-ion should never be discharged too low, and there are several safeguards to prevent this from happening. The equipment cuts off when the battery discharges to about 3.0V/cell, stopping the current flow. If the discharge continues to about 2.70V/cell or lower, the battery’s protection circuit puts the battery into a sleep mode. This renders the pack unserviceable and a recharge with most chargers is not possible. To prevent a battery from falling asleep, apply a partial charge before a long storage period.
Battery manufacturers ship batteries with a 40 percent charge. The low charge state reduces aging-related stress while allowing some self-discharge during storage. To minimize the current flow for the protection circuit before the battery is sold, advanced Li-ion packs feature a sleep mode that disables the protection circuit until activated by a brief charge or discharge. Once engaged, the battery remains operational and the on state can no longer be switched back to the standby mode.
Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week. Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells that can lead to a partial or total electrical short. If recharged, the cells might become unstable, causing excessive heat or showing other anomalies. Li-ion packs that have been under stress are more sensitive to mechanical abuse, such as vibration, dropping and exposure to heat.

Rocko · Nov 14, 2011

Funny how Apple contradicts itself. They say this...
[h=3]Standard Technology[/h] Lithium-ion polymer batteries pack in a higher power density than nickel-based batteries. This gives you a longer battery life in a lighter package, as lithium is the lightest metal. You can also recharge a lithium-ion polymer battery whenever convenient, without the full charge or discharge cycle necessary to keep nickel-based batteries at peak performance. (Over time, crystals build up in nickel-based batteries and prevent you from charging them completely, necessitating an inconvenient full discharge.)

Apple - Batteries

Skull One · Nov 14, 2011

Ok, lets put the whole Lithium-Ion debate to rest.

Lithium-Ion batteries NEED TO BE fully discharged and recharged every 60 to 100 charges IF you want proper reporting concerning the battery and the device using that battery.

Fact: It costs battery life every time you poll it for its charge level. To minimize the number of times the battery is polled, cell phone makers have software that tracks what it believes is the top and bottom of the voltage levels that phone can report and averages out using the few readings it takes of the battery to estimate the amount of battery remaining. This software has to be "refreshed" on occasion to get the proper readings.

And that folks is the "WHY" you need to condition it. BTW Android is WAY more transparent about this. If you root your phone you can go to /data/system/ and actually see the file batterystats.bin. This contains the battery "profile" and projected discharge rates across each voltage range. Now if you really want to have fun with Android, charge the battery to 100%, take a snap shot of your ROM, discharge the battery to 50% and then restore your ROM. The batterystats.bin is read by Android and then it looks at the actual battery charge at boot. The software can and will get confused because the data won't make sense and you get some VERY interesting readings and results in the battery tracking software in Android 2.2 and above

Fact: All consumer grade Li-Ion batteries have a circuit built into them that make sure you do not get below a certain voltage, above a certain voltage or above a certain temperature. The "below a certain voltage" can cause the battery to charge TO QUICKLY with modern chargers and increase the heat in the battery above 140F. 140F is the lowest temperature at which a Li-Ion battery can reach thermal runaway and begin to "self heat" to the point of catastrophic failure. The above temp/voltage side is due to both thermal runaway and plating of the anode which reduces the batteries ability to charge at all. BTW, don't try to charge a consumer grade Li-Ion battery at 32F or below. It is a waste of time due to the chemical process being unable to function properly even at a 1.1 amp charging load. Also if the battery reaches a under volt or over volt condition, the battery will not function properly until reset by a special device that communicates with the on board circuit.

Rocko · Nov 14, 2011

The refreshing you speak of, wouldn't this happen after a hard reset or restore also?

Skull One · Nov 14, 2011

Rocko said:
The refreshing you speak of, wouldn't this happen after a hard reset or restore also?

On a hard reset, no. The file is maintained. Remember the battery isn't considered user replaceable. Hence there is no reason to wipe the profile data.

Also, my opinion is that it is even maintained thru a data wipe/reset since it is a system file and not a user file due also to the battery being mated with the phone for life.

Rocko · Nov 14, 2011

Skull One said:
On a hard reset, no. The file is maintained. Remember the battery isn't considered user replaceable. Hence there is no reason to wipe the profile data.

Also, my opinion is that it is even maintained thru a data wipe/reset since it is a system file and not a user file due also to the battery being mated with the phone for life.

Yes, this makes sense. Have you been able to pinpoint the battery stat file? Like you said, it's easy to find/reset on android through clockwork recovery.

gixxersixxer · Nov 14, 2011

gixxersixxer said:
Do you mind walking me through what procedure this is... Wipe as in, go to setting and reset all settings? Or erase all content and settings...

What data should I not sync via itunes after doing so... I guess I want to make sure I eliminate certain data transfering over, to make sure I start off as clean as possible to try and get the same results others are getting by starting over...

Then go to app store and readd all the apps i had? How about my note pad, calendar and such. Do i restore from a back up or as a new device? Im not very familiar with this process, could you point me in the right direction of what exactly I should try, maybe a thread describing the whole process step by step. Thanks

What do you say skull?... or anyone... Thanks.

Skull One · Nov 14, 2011

Rocko said:
Yes, this makes sense. Have you been able to pinpoint the battery stat file? Like you said, it's easy to find/reset on android through clockwork recovery.

I have not studied the iOS file system at all. Mainly because I refuse to jailbreak.

To be blunt, I will never allow myself to be sucked in to another "cell phone culture" like I was into Android. I basically answer things here as a hobby. The moment it takes more time than 3 hours of my time a week, I will retire.

JackB03 · Nov 14, 2011

This may have been said already, but when does 5.0.2 come out?

I'm still having problems with my new 3GS. Battery is draining ......

Skull One · Nov 14, 2011

gixxersixxer said:
Do you mind walking me through what procedure this is... Wipe as in, go to setting and reset all settings? Or erase all content and settings...

What data should I not sync via itunes after doing so... I guess I want to make sure I eliminate certain data transfering over, to make sure I start off as clean as possible to try and get the same results others are getting by starting over...

Then go to app store and readd all the apps i had? How about my note pad, calendar and such. Do i restore from a back up or as a new device? Im not very familiar with this process, could you point me in the right direction of what exactly I should try, maybe a thread describing the whole process step by step. Thanks

Wipe side requires you to go into Settings -> General -> Reset.

Then connect the phone to iTunes and tell it to sync contacts, photos, music and apps.

Do not allow it to do a "restore" when you connect it.

Remember, this is a ONE WAY road. You will lose all your game/app save data, your text messages and general settings that you have tweaked.

Now to help give you some piece of mind, do a "Backup" of the iPhone before you go done this road. That way you do still have the ability to do a full restore if needed. But remember this reintroduces what is wrong to begin with.